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Latest comment: 23 hours ago by JotaCartas in topic Please not again
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Tech News: 2024-51

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MediaWiki message delivery 22:21, 16 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Category discussion warning

Buses by use has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at [[{{{2}}}|its entry]].

If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category.

In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!


Miikul (talk) 03:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Category discussion warning

Category:Xingxin_(surname) has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at [[{{{2}}}|its entry]].

If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category.

In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!


Kokage si (talk) 12:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Category discussion warning

Category:Sansong_(surname) has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at [[{{{2}}}|its entry]].

If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category.

In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!


Nous (talk) 10:57, 6 January 2025 (UTC)Reply

Tech News: 2025-03

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MediaWiki message delivery 01:39, 14 January 2025 (UTC)Reply

Jangadeiros Lighthouse

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Hi JotaCartas, hope you are well an that the year kicked off well for you. Just a question, is the Jangadeiros lighthouse leaning (like the Tower of Pisa), or is the photo skew? I would ask to straighten it, but wouldn't want to do that if it is the lighthouse that is leaning. Regards, Rui Rui Gabriel Correia (talk) 08:54, 20 January 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi @Rui Gabriel Correia: , verificando outras fotos na Web, o farol em questão não está inclinado, é um problema da foto. Sim, a foto pode/deve ser coorrigida para não causar dúvidas, Cumprimentos - (en: checking other photos on the web, the lighthouse in question is not tilted, it is a problem with the photo. Yes, the photo can/should be corrected so as not to cause doubts) JotaCartas (talk) 14:03, 20 January 2025 (UTC)Reply

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MediaWiki message delivery 01:33, 21 January 2025 (UTC)Reply

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MediaWiki message delivery 22:11, 27 January 2025 (UTC)Reply

Passenger ships on the Douro

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Hello JotaCartas, please note the difference between tour boats and river cruise ships. Tour boats are for shorts trips without accommodation and river cruise ships are for longer journeys with cabins for the passengers. This clear difference has to be reflected in the categories. Greetings Ein Dahmer (talk) 05:11, 28 January 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi @Ein Dahmer: , Yes, this boats of Portugal are a mess (mostly made by me). I am trying to correct, thanks JotaCartas (talk) 05:13, 28 January 2025 (UTC)Reply

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MediaWiki message delivery 00:05, 4 February 2025 (UTC)Reply

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MediaWiki message delivery 02:27, 4 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

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MediaWiki message delivery 23:06, 10 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Categorizing music by year

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Hallo, could you help in the discussione started here https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Categories_for_discussion/2025/03/Category:Music_in_Lombardy_by_year with a group of Wikipedians opposing categories for music by year, saying it gives birth to category that are too small and not meaningful? They seem not to grasp what a chronology is... It was all started by one person, who then called a group of people sharing his point of view. Thank you. --User:G.dallorto (talk) 21:13, 14 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Tech News: 2025-12

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MediaWiki message delivery 23:44, 17 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Sunsets

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Please see the warnings at the top of the category Category:Sunsets. Hjart (talk) 08:13, 23 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi, do you mean "Please categorise the media in to the country categories found under Category:Sunsets by country." ? For the moment I just populated the "Category:Sunsets" with about a thousand images that were not yet in that category. Yes, I'll try to do that later (just as any user can do it) JotaCartas (talk) 08:43, 23 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
Yes, that's what I mean. I just think it would be better to sort images by country right away (to the degree it's possible), rather than stuff more images into an already heavily overcrowded category. Hjart (talk) 08:53, 23 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
OK, I'll to do that later. Just to explain what I did: I just collected the sunset images that were not in the Sunset category, with the help of "search images" in Google Chrome, and I couldn't find out if they were or not classified in any country. Thanks JotaCartas (talk) 08:55, 23 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
Hi again, I have finished processing almost all the images that I had placed in the "Sunsets" category. About 300 still to process, a small part without location information. I will work on them shortly, best regards --JotaCartas (talk) 02:57, 24 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Tech News: 2025-13

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MediaWiki message delivery 22:38, 24 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Categorization

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Thank you for all the categories. Please allow a remark. Please be more careful while setting categories with "sunset" - like Revision of 1008354499. Sometimes it's a sunrise and the category is already set. Thank you. --XRay 💬 07:45, 30 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi, I will be more careful, but i use when possible PetScan and AWB and mistakes can happend. I will review all my categorizations with PetScan to find the errors. I will also be extra careful with - Featured, Quality and Valued images - as they usualy belong to many categories, making errors more likely to happen. Thanks JotaCartas (talk) 08:17, 30 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
It is not easy to formulate a good query to determine the photos. But there are categories with “sunsets and sunrises” in their names. An analysis of the existing categories should reveal this. From my own experience, I can say that Commons has the most incredible combinations. --XRay 💬 16:14, 30 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Tech News: 2025-14

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MediaWiki message delivery 00:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

File:Projectonunomilhomens@gmail.com (21846551618).jpg

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Omphalographer (talk) 23:54, 6 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi, indeed I don't know much about this subject, but I agree with the deletion JotaCartas (talk) 00:02, 7 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

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MediaWiki message delivery 18:49, 7 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

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MediaWiki message delivery 00:21, 15 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

File:The Artist - Maurits Cornelis Escher - working at his Atelier (50385403156).jpg has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this file, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue. Please see Commons:But it's my own work! for a guide on how to address these issues.

Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!

Jarekt (talk) 20:12, 16 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Tech News: 2025-17

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MediaWiki message delivery 20:56, 21 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

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MediaWiki message delivery 00:11, 6 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

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MediaWiki message delivery 22:34, 12 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

File:Still Life (1943) - Giorgio Morandi (1890-1964) (31260909628).jpg has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this file, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue. Please see Commons:But it's my own work! for a guide on how to address these issues.

Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!

Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 15:53, 18 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

Tech News: 2025-21

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MediaWiki message delivery 23:09, 19 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

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MediaWiki message delivery 03:36, 5 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

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MediaWiki message delivery 23:25, 11 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

Sunsets and sunrises

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It looks like you're currently categorizing a lot of images as "sunset," even though some of them actually show sunrises. I've already corrected my images myself, but maybe this affects other images as well? Please check your edits again. Thanks. Lukas Beck (talk) 18:31, 16 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

Sunsets und sunrises (2)

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I would like to ask you to work a little more carefully. You are currently causing me a lot of extra work. Please take a look at the difference between sunrise and sunset. And pictures taken at the blue hour are after (!) sunset or before (!) sunrise. XRay 💬 07:29, 17 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

I believe I made some mistakes, as I'm working primarily with the AWB tool. However, I only edit photos that are categorized under the "Sunsets" category. Of course, I don't analyze photo by photo to see if the previous category is correct, so some mistakes will be made. In any case, I'll be more careful. Thank you. JotaCartas (talk) 07:46, 17 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
OK, i made some mistakes with "Golden Hour". I will correct them
I've fixed all my photos. --XRay 💬 08:12, 17 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

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MediaWiki message delivery 22:51, 22 September 2025 (UTC)Reply

File:Senftenberg See lub 2022-07-20 Sonnenuntergang.jpg

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I request that you immediately stop making your latest edits to my file. As I already wrote, there are more than one person in this picture. Furthermore, and I already told you this, I consider this category irrelevant, as the people in the picture are so small that they practically don't matter. We shouldn't fill our category unnecessarily. Lukas Beck (talk) 09:40, 27 September 2025 (UTC)Reply

I request that you immediately stop saying "to my file" ... this file is no longer yours ... otherwise, no more comments JotaCartas (talk) 14:05, 27 September 2025 (UTC)Reply
Our rules say that we should only categorize what we see. So, if you see two people there, which category shouldn't you use? Yes, that's right, "1 person." Verty good. So it has nothing to do with property claims, but rather with general rules that you should adhere to. Thank you for abiding by the community rules. No more comments ;-) Lukas Beck (talk) 16:34, 27 September 2025 (UTC)Reply
I had a rule: "Don't respond to provocations until at least 48 hours later." This time I broke the rule, but I already regret it and it won't happen again. But receiving cynical messages isn't very pleasant. Keep calm... bye, see you in 48 hours. JotaCartas (talk) 17:26, 27 September 2025 (UTC)Reply
People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. If I may remind you, I very politely pointed out to you that your edit was nonsensical, and I gave my reasons for doing so. Your reaction was to undo my change without comment. So now I'm wondering which of us is the provocateur. Lukas Beck (talk) 07:39, 28 September 2025 (UTC)Reply

COM:Overcat

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Please note that this category is already part of this category, and according to our policy, it is not permitted to add this category to this category too. Please keep this in mind when editing. Thank you. Lukas Beck (talk) 04:07, 29 September 2025 (UTC)Reply

It's the same thing here. Lukas Beck (talk) 04:08, 29 September 2025 (UTC)Reply
L. Beck, It's the same thing here. (It starts to look like harassment) JotaCartas (talk) 04:19, 30 September 2025 (UTC)Reply
You're absolutely right. I've edited the category accordingly, with a reference to our guidelines. Thanks for the tip. Feel free to make such changes yourself in the future. I fail to see things sometimes. Lukas Beck (talk) 12:20, 2 October 2025 (UTC)Reply

Categories

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Hello, thanks for adding my personal categories to some files, I appreciate that. Just out of curiosity, how did you find them? They are very different types of images and they were not un-categorised either. I am just asking because sometimes I forget to add these categories when uploading images and thus far, I only found them accidentally. Kind regards wuppertaler Post um 08:41, 29 September 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi, -wuppertaler
1 - Select images with "Media search" see
2 - Copy images to a exel sheet to concatenate "File:name of the file"
3 - With AWB tool I selecte all the images that contained "-wuppertaler"
and thats it, regards JotaCartas (talk) 12:36, 29 September 2025 (UTC)Reply

Tech News: 2025-40

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MediaWiki message delivery 20:47, 29 September 2025 (UTC)Reply

File:Berlin Landsberger Allee lub 2024-09-14 img02.jpg

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Please note that this image was taken approximately one hour before sunset. The golden hour phenomenon is clearly visible, but not the sunset. Therefore, I consider it appropriate to remove the category and would ask you not to add it again. Thank you. Lukas Beck (talk) 05:43, 2 October 2025 (UTC)Reply

Sunset vs Golden Hour vs Twilight vs Dusk vs Blue hour

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To XRay, L. Beck, hi

1. Officialy, sunset is the specific moment when the Sun's upper edge disappears below the Earth's horizon.

2. Most of the aproximate 113.000 images under category "Sunsets" are realy at "Golden hour" or "Twilight" or "Blue hour" or "Dusk" and some just still in the Afternoon or already at night, similar situation happens in Category "Sunrises".

3. Do you intend to remove those file to the correct "Part of the day"? I don't think so!

4. You are reverting my editions because you are folowing me (I'm starting to think that you are just harassing me).

— Now, about "Automobiles at sunset"

1. Indeed the images are classified in "Dusk in xxxx" or "Golden hour in xxxx" etc.

2. The are no categories "Automobiles at Golden hour/twilight/Bule hour/Dust", only Categories "Automobiles at sunset" and "Automobiles at sunrise".

3. So, it doesn't seem very incorrect to me to classify these automobile as Category:Automobiles at sunset.

— And about re-editing your editions or reversions —

1. You already know (as you are folowing me) that I am using many batch tools like (PetScan/AWB/Media Search) to process thousand of files, that are not completely categorized, and it is obvious that I produce "some/a lot" of errors.

2. Also, I may unintentionally re-edit your editions or reversions, as the files apear again in my process.

3. I tried to put those files in a user:category "Do Not Edit (JotaCartas)" to avoid this issue, but didn't work.

— I think I've said everything that's on my mind, Best regards

First of all, I'm not following you. I see your changes because you either edit images I've uploaded or categories I've created or edited. You appear on my watchlist, that's all. I ask you to refrain from such insinuations in the future. I prefer to look at the case from a factual perspective, and I realize that I wouldn't add sunset categories to a photo taken about an hour before sunset. There are certainly categories that categorize objects, such as animals, during the golden hour. So, yes, why not for cars, if this topic is important to you? --Lukas Beck (talk) 12:12, 2 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
In many cases, the categories are not clear-cut. Not to mention that they are not necessarily maintained correctly. This does not make things any easier. At sunset (and similarly at sunrise), I assume that at least some of it can be seen directly or indirectly. The blue hour does not begin immediately after sunset, but only a few minutes later. And the sky then offers the entire spectrum from orange (more like sunset) towards the sun to almost black (more like night) in the opposite direction. The transitions between the individual parts of the day are fluid, even if they can be determined astronomically (mathematically) with precision—including the three phases of twilight. I have reverted the changes where nothing of the sunset can be seen. I know that with the individual way in which all our categories are maintained, it is necessary to determine the right criteria for a batch job. The category Quality images of objects is still overcrowded because someone thought it would be a good idea to set this category and used the category tree with far too many levels. With each deeper level, the information becomes increasingly blurred. In this respect: I can see that you are doing your best to set the categories. Reset changes should be noted in the next action, but – if there aren't too many – there's no need to worry. --XRay 💬 12:12, 2 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
Hi agaim, as I said some days ago, I dont use to answer (pt-"a quente) "on the fly.". But today i break the rule just to say:
I said what was in my mind and both of you did the same. That works for me. (note:I am not a native English speaker). Thanks and best regards JotaCartas (talk) 12:35, 2 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
No problem. I write simple answers using my rather limited vocabulary, and longer texts with the help of a translation tool. Overall, however, it's a feasible approach for everyone. --XRay 💬 12:40, 2 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
BTW: Please do not use categories such as Category:Do Not Edit (JotaCartas). This is frowned upon at Commons. What if lots of people did that? It would only cause trouble. --XRay 💬 12:29, 2 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
OK, no problem JotaCartas (talk) 12:36, 2 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
@JotaCartas: I need to add something else. I just thought of these two categories: Category:Foreglow and Category:Afterglow. This is the part of sunrise and sunset that falls into twilight. It could be structured as follows: The boundaries are sunrise and sunset, the golden hour, sunrise and sunset fall on the day, blue hour, morning and evening red and twilight in the night, and blue hour, morning (foreglow) and evening red (afterglow) in twilight. Perhaps as a suggestion. --XRay 💬 04:30, 7 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
XRay, Hi, Yes Categories "Sunsets" and "Sunrises" are very confusing. As we all know, officially Sunset is just the specific moment when the sun sets (and lasts less than 1 second), but... here on Commons the "Sunsets" category has thousands of photos of Golden hour, twilight, dusk, blue hour, forglow and afterglow, and only a few actually correspond to the "official Sunset". It's true that Golden hour is day, but (twilight, dawn, dusk, blue hour and afterglow) ARE NOT night. But, in my opinion (here on Commons) all these categories should all be under "Sunsets". Something similar is happening in relation to "Sunrise". I have an exel sheet resuming what I think/know about this isue, I will post here a print (next), and if you want i can send you a copy JotaCartas (talk) 04:43, 7 October 2025 (UTC)Reply

XRay

Quadro sunsets
Meaning of the 4 tables:
1 - Real (official) - This is the reality.
2 - Splitting Categories in Commons - Possible scheme if the categories "Twilight", "Golden hour" and Blue hour are splitted into morning and afternoon.
3 - Categories Commons actual - Actual organisation.
4 - Categories Commons (proposed) - Keeping only the actual categories, this is what I think about the organisation. JotaCartas (talk) 05:03, 7 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
I'm just wondering what your basis for the "official" is. When I look up night on Wikipedia, I learn, and this sounds logical, that night begins with the disappearance of the sun. In other words, I don't need total darkness for the night. This also fits with the term "White Night," which is definitely night, but it remains twilight the entire night. Lukas Beck (talk) 05:55, 7 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
The fact is that there is no exact definition of the sections of the day. Not even for the day itself. The astronomical definition is fairly fixed. Then there is a common definition, which is relatively flexible. There is some time between astronomical sunset and common, visible sunset, as refraction of light etc. also plays a role. So there is a true sunset and an apparent sunset. All of this means that the categories here at Commons are somewhat confused. The classification of images is sometimes arbitrary. --XRay 💬 06:31, 7 October 2025 (UTC)Reply

File:Porto 2014 DSC09291 (34069347243).jpg

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File:Porto 2014 DSC09291 (34069347243).jpg has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this file, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue. Please see Commons:But it's my own work! for a guide on how to address these issues.

Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!

זיו「Ziv」For love letters and other notes 09:19, 4 October 2025 (UTC)Reply

File:Porto 2014 DSC09341 (33827896660).jpg

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File:Porto 2014 DSC09341 (33827896660).jpg has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this file, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue. Please see Commons:But it's my own work! for a guide on how to address these issues.

Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!

זיו「Ziv」For love letters and other notes 09:20, 4 October 2025 (UTC)Reply

File:Sunset over Roddino, Piemonte, Italy.jpg

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Please note that this category is appropriate when significant parts of a tree, such as the trunk, branches, or leaves, are visible. For shots like these, it makes more sense to use this category instead. Lukas Beck (talk) 07:18, 5 October 2025 (UTC)Reply

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MediaWiki message delivery 17:18, 6 October 2025 (UTC)Reply

Sunset vs Golden Hour vs Twilight vs Dusk vs Blue hour (part II))

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XRay

Quadro sunsets

a) The criteria to be used should be discussed and defined at the Commons level, because, as is easy to see, classification criteria differ from country to country. Obviously, this is very complex, and no one has ever tried or managed to define rules for the Commons, but perhaps it's time to do so.

b) Another problem is that twilight, golden hour, and blue hour in English and in the Commons can be either morning or afternoon, but in other languages ​​they have different names.

(fr) French – twilight (morning) -> Aurore, Aube; twilight (evening) -> Crépuscule.

(es) Spanish – twilight (morning -> Crepúsculo matutino; twilight (evening) -> Crepúsculo vespertino.

(pt) Portuguese – twilight (morning -> Aurora, Alva, Alba; twilight (evening) -> Crepúsculo, Lusco-fusco.

c) Currently, "Golden hour" is not even classified under "Sunsets" or "Sunrises." Perhaps the solution would be to also classify them as "Sunsets" and "Sunrises" according to the time they were taken. As I mentioned before, the "Sunsets" category has thousands of photos that actually belong to the "Golden hour," and many others are in Twilight (all of which no longer show the sun). JotaCartas (talk) 05:30, 7 October 2025 (UTC)Reply

Just for the sake of completeness, I would like to add my comment from above here as it is relevant to the topic: I'm just wondering what your basis for the "official" is. When I look up night on Wikipedia, I learn, and this sounds logical, that night begins with the disappearance of the sun. In other words, I don't need total darkness for the night. This also fits with the term "White Night," which is definitely night, but it remains twilight the entire night. Lukas Beck (talk) 05:59, 7 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
Twilight subcategories
hi, please "google it"
Sunset is defined as the instant in the evening under ideal meteorological conditions, with standard refraction of the Sun's rays, when the upper edge of the sun's disk is coincident with an ideal horizon.
"No, twilight is not night; twilight is the period of transition between day and night when the sun is below the horizon but still illuminates the atmosphere, whereas night is when the sky is completely dark because the sun is sufficiently below the horizon to prevent any direct sunlight from reaching it." JotaCartas (talk) 06:09, 7 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
Your definition is comprehensible and can also be found in Wikipedia articles on the topic of night. This is the astronomical perspective. Generally, night is described, as can also be found in Wikipedia articles, as the state between sunset and sunrise. As mentioned, this is the only way to explain the term "white night," in which the sun sets, but the entire "night" remains twilight. In your definition, I see another, much more serious problem. Twilight has different phases. The darkest phase is astronomical twilight. Let's take Berlin, the German capital with countless nighttime images, as an example. Between May 18th and July 25th, there is no night here. At most, astronomical twilight is reached. In practice, I am unable to visually distinguish between night and astronomical twilight in images. But if we were to consistently follow your approach, all nighttime images taken during this period would have to be classified into the twilight category. I just don't think it makes sense, since there's often no visual difference. Lukas Beck (talk) 09:24, 7 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
The fact is that there is no exact definition of the sections of the day. Not even for the day itself. The astronomical definition is fairly fixed. Then there is a common definition, which is relatively flexible. There is some time between astronomical sunset and common, visible sunset, as refraction of light etc. also plays a role. So there is a true sunset and an apparent sunset. All of this means that the categories here at Commons are somewhat confused. The classification of images is sometimes arbitrary. --XRay 💬 06:32, 7 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
Let me summarize this confusing topic:
(1) In general usage, the following terms are used, for example: Day (either 24 hours or between sunrise and sunset), night (between sunset and sunrise or also the time between evening and morning), morning (after sunrise, earlier in winter in the Northern Hemisphere), evening (after sunset, earlier in summer in the Northern Hemisphere), noon (between morning and afternoon, varying in length depending on the region), afternoon (between noon and evening), sunset (shortly before the sun appears to disappear on the horizon until shortly after), sunrise accordingly, blue hour (when the sky is intensely blue at dusk), golden hour (before sunset with an intense golden color), evening glow (red sky after sunset), etc.
(2) Astronomically clearly structured depending on the actual position of the sun, but without colloquial or regional names. I'll leave it at that with the definitions here—except for night. Here, that is the time between twilight. Much shorter than the common usage.
Establishing an order here that everyone understands and observes is likely to be an impossible challenge. In this short description alone, there are up to three definitions for one fact. I tried to adjust this in Wikidata this morning. I may be one step ahead, but even there, things are confusing or merge into one another. If you manage to find some kind of order, that would be remarkable. When I saw yesterday that even afterglow is classified as sunset, I was at a loss. The categories are vague everywhere anyway.
--XRay 💬 08:31, 7 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
Table 4 sunsets
hi, XRay, L. Beck
1 - Despite any official definitions and/or common sense, wp:commons should have a single, logical hierarchy for categorizing the different categories related to sunsets and sunrises.
2 - I also believe that the categories that occur in the morning and afternoon ("Twilight," "Golden Hour," and "Blu Hour") should not be separated/splitted, as this would only complicate the problem further.
3 - Therefore, I'm attaching a new version of "Table 4 - Categories Commons (proposed)" that I believe solves the problem. In any case, if we reach an agreement, I plan to present this solution to Commons:Village Pump, for discussion and voting by all wp:Commons users interested in the topic.
Thank you , best regards JotaCartas (talk) 09:38, 7 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
With all due respect for your efforts to bring order, and without wanting to disappoint you, it's not going to work. Just one comment on this: twilight is not part of sunrise or sunset. I have also thought about concepts for various things in the past, and every time someone came along who prevented or at least hindered their implementation. Commons is too complex, the users too diverse. At the very least, the discussions are futile. Nevertheless, I wish you good luck! --XRay 💬 09:54, 7 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
Hi again, first of all, thanks for your answer, although it's not very encouraging.😏
Regarding Twilight not being Sunset or Sunrise, I agree, but in reality, almost all Twilight photos could be in Sunsets or Sunrises if the user so defined. If you search the Sunset/Sunrise categories, you'll find thousands of photos that would possibly be better classified in Twilight/Dawn/Dusk. I don't intend to force users to decide on a correct categorization (that depends on each person's sensitivity). I intend for the hierarchy of categories to be a single one (and have some logic), and after that, each user can place their photos in the category they see fit. best regards JotaCartas (talk) 10:10, 7 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
That might work for me. Otherwise, just be bold and make changes to the categories. Discussing something like this, as XRay already mentioned, won't lead to useful results. However, it would be helpful if you could explain to me again how you intend to handle images of astronomical twilight. Lukas Beck (talk) 10:18, 7 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
Hi, thanks, I actually haven't considered all the aspects of the various categories (at least in terms of imagery) related to Sunsets & Sunrises. I created the Excel tables last night to help my own thinking about this issue. It's already daytime in Portugal, and I'm still awake, and it's time to go to bed. I'll probably discuss the best solution again tomorrow or the day after. Good night/day, best regards JotaCartas (talk) 10:29, 7 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
Good night 🙂 Lukas Beck (talk) 10:54, 7 October 2025 (UTC)Reply

Sunset vs Golden Hour vs Twilight vs Dusk vs Blue hour (V.3)

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Tables 3 and 4 Sunsets/Sunrises V.3

Hi, XRay and L. Beck This is the V.3 of the tables 3 and 4 (actual vs proposes). I didn't have much time to analyze all the other categories, but I think they'll all be compatible with this scheme. In short, only two changes will be necessary, indicated by red arrows in Table 3:

1 - "Category:Twilight" - replace "Category:Night" with "Category: Sunsets and sunrises."

2 - "Category:Golden hour (photography)" - Add "Category: Sunsets and sunrises."

If both agree (and perhaps any other user you know interested in this matter), the changes will be made by me (or by "Lukas Beck", if he so wishes).

If we get past this point, a more complicated problem is replicating this scheme for all subcategories of "Sunsets and Sunrises," namely "Sunsets by Country." I think it's best to reach consensus within the wp:Commons community. If I will make the proposal in "Village Pump" I hope and appreciate your support, or perhaps someone more familiar with English and these actions could propose it.

I am open to any suggestions or comments. I'll be out the rest of the day, but thanks in advance and best regards. JotaCartas (talk) 01:55, 8 October 2025 (UTC)Reply

Good morning. From my point of view, I find your suggestion understandable. It would be compatible with the astronomical perspective of the night - which is good. However, before I can approve it and possibly support you, you must answer two more questions.
1. In the north, which actually affects all of Scandinavia, Canada, Alaska, and parts of the United Kingdom, we talk about white nights, when in the summer months the sun just disappears below the horizon and it remains twilight the whole time. Currently, these categories are classified under summer nights and thus under nights. But that would contradict the new interpretation. How would you deal with this?
2. According to this interpretation, astronomical twilight is not part of the night, but part of twilight. In most images, it tends to be impossible to visually distinguish between this twilight phase and actual night. In large parts of Germany, for example, it is consistently at its peak twilight in June. So in practice, this would mean that night images from, let's take Berlin as an example, cannot actually be night images, since they were taken at most during astronomical twilight. How do you want to deal with this considerable number of images?
Kind regards Lukas Beck (talk) 04:49, 8 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
Read and taked by me in considertion JotaCartas (talk) 22:38, 8 October 2025 (UTC)Reply

Please not again

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I had just got everything sorted out. :-( For the day: golden hour, sunrise, and sunset; for the night: twilight, dawn, dusk, afterglow, foreglow, blue hour. And please don't remove DEFAULTSORT. “Dü” comes after “Dz” and not between “Dt” and “Dv”. It's necessary. XRay 💬 07:17, 10 October 2025 (UTC)Reply

XRay ,  ????, I am not removing any DEFAULTSORT. , can you give me some name file exemple JotaCartas (talk) 07:23, 10 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
Perhaps Commons only showed me this because of the difference between the versions. If I made a false claim, I apologize. ... checking ... And you're right. The DEFAULTSORT has just been moved to a different location. --XRay 💬 09:38, 10 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
XRay, hi, OK, understand, no problem.
About the files I classified as "Category:Panoramic photographs of sunsets" not very correctly, I already reverted all.
The problem was by using the PetScan tool to select the files, because two main reasons:
1 - Some files had p.ex "Category:Dusc in some city" and also "Category:Clouds at sunset", and then i selecte it to categorize in "Category:Panoramic photographs of sunsets".
2 - Inside some categories (p.ex. Sunsets by country), ex. the category "Dusk in Morocco" is in the category "Dusc by country" and also in the category "Sunsets of Morocco".
I am now awere of the problem, and this will not append again (I hope).
It was because of problem (2-) that I tried to define a global scheme in wp:commons to categorize images related to Sunsets and Sunrises, but as you know I ended giving up (for now, as I can try to return to the subject one day). JotaCartas (talk) 10:17, 10 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
The issue of day and night sections still concerns me. I have always thought that this is confusing. We probably share the same opinion on this. There are basically three different approaches: the astronomical definition, the common definition, and the expectation of what photos can be found in the Commons categories. The entries in Wikidata are a little more precise, but ultimately treated carelessly. I'll take a closer look at this in the next few days, starting with Wikidata. --XRay 💬 10:19, 10 October 2025 (UTC)Reply
XRay, OK, hope you get a better idea about the subject but no rush.
About exemples of bad categorization look at Namibia and Morocco:
Category:Sunsets of Namibia -> Category:Sunsets by country and -> Category:Dusk in Namibia
Category:Dusk in Morocco -> Category:Dusk by country and -> Category:Sunsets of Morocco
Using PetScan if I search only "Dusk", all the files of "Sunsets of Namibia" will be wrongly selected. And I search only "Sunrises", all the files of "Dusc in Morocco" will also be wrongly selected.
JotaCartas (talk) 10:38, 10 October 2025 (UTC)Reply